Talk:Super Saiyan Blue
The naming Is it me or does the name of this transformation sound kinda.... redundant? I know that's the name of the transformation according to translations, but still. I mean you're saying the work "Super Saiyan" twice. Tenth Doctor (Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem) 17:27, May 23, 2015 (UTC) :Quick question: How exactly is this supposed to improve the article? 17:29, May 23, 2015 (UTC) ::Agreed. Alpha, please only use the talk pages for messages related to the content of the article, not your opinion on the actual canon name. It could be named "I'm blue da ba dee da ba di" and we'd have to title it such if that's the canon name.--Mina Țepeș (Enter the Bund) 17:30, May 23, 2015 (UTC) :::Again, not really starting anything, but I was merely curious about what's everyone's opinion about it. Tenth Doctor (Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem) 17:31, May 23, 2015 (UTC) ::::We have forums and personal user talk pages for that.--Mina Țepeș (Enter the Bund) 17:31, May 23, 2015 (UTC) :::::It's not that you are starting stuff, it's just that the talkpage isn't for this kind of discussion... :::::Also, there are no user talkpages here. --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 17:32, May 23, 2015 (UTC) :::::: You can take this kind of thing over to the series debate board on the forums, Alpha. Better place. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:33, May 23, 2015 (UTC) Super Saiyan Blue This discussion is closed. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan page should be renamed to Super Saiyan Blue. It has been confirmed in episode 37. Herms98 on Twitter verified it also https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/716420209200861184 Faisal Shourov (talk) 01:46, April 3, 2016 (UTC) : Not quite. Even if Vegeta uses the term in an episode, that is not cause for renaming. The supplementary guidebook, Dragon Ball Volume "F", written by Toriyama, refers to the form as Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Therefore, the name should remain as such, but not without mention of "Super Saiyan Blue" in the article, as I have now re-added. Furthermore, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is still used in the very chapter that the term "Super Saiyan Blue" originated. But unless Toriyama himself comes out and calls it Super Saiyan Blue, we shall stick with what the official creator of the series used in the databook he wrote.—Mina Țepeș 02:19, April 3, 2016 (UTC) I'll check it out and confirm this for myself, as no matter how accurate information can be you must confirm this yourself and base your reasons to change a pagename based on first hand information rather than third-party information. Furthermore I concede to your point that it has been named Super Saiyan Blue in the manga and the anime (according to your link). But the issue is that the name you want to rename comes from the source material of the author himself, that was named on the a databook, according to our canon-tier we will be using Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan until Toriyama or a next film of his is calls it that. For now the name stays and the Super Saiyan Blue name gets the second mention because its secondary status on our canon-tier, hence why we've placed super as 'canon' but beneath the original manga and the words of Toriyama. To find out more look for the Dragon Universe Wikia:Canon. —[[User:New World God|''NWG]] 02:37, April 3, 2016 (UTC) Neither Toei nor Toyataro would use the term Super Saiyan Blue if it wasn't created or sanctioned by Toriyama. Toyataro doesn't follow Toei's script for Super. Everything from Universe 6 arc and onwards is the primary canon for the franchise, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan has been officially retconned. The databook surely doesn't hold more weight than the anime, does it? Faisal Shourov (talk) 06:04, April 3, 2016 (UTC) : A databook made by the very man himself would certainly hold more weight than the anime. ''Dragon Ball Super, while it follows the script made by Toriyama, is still being animated and produced by Toei; they're filling in the gaps and whatnot. However, the "Volume 'F'" is 100% Toriyama's databook, created by the man for the Revival of 'F' movie, and it explicitly calls the transformation "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan". And as NWG stated, we take Toriyama's direct word as canon; he is the creator of the series, and thus, what he says is what works; that's how we do it here. As a final note, please remember that "Super Saiyan Blue" is a nickname created for the form to make it easier to name in conversation, as the true name is overly long. That's all there is to that name. We mention the name on the article. We don't exclude it.—Mina Țepeș 06:20, April 3, 2016 (UTC) :: To further elaborate on how a script and the final product are different, let's look at a few. The script of Star Wars calls the Jedi Knights "Jedi Templars"; Jack Sparrow , in the script of the movies, is a very serious character, but Johnny Depp improvised his crazed demeanor and it stuck. Even if Toriyama is in charge of the script, we have absolutely no idea what Toei is changing and editing up as the series proceeds. Unless we see the script in a raw, unedited form, how can we make guesses?—Mina Țepeș 06:49, April 3, 2016 (UTC) "Neither Toei nor Toyataro would use the term Super Saiyan Blue if it wasn't created or sanctioned by Toriyama." Care to cite your claim and prove that because unless this statement was written from an interview or even a scintilla truth behind it and its complete conjecture on your part. If there was an interview where this was the case I would agree with you. "Everything from Universe 6 arc and onwards is the primary canon for the franchise, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan has been officially retconned. The databook surely doesn't hold more weight than the anime, does it?" Wrong, did you read what I told you about our Dragon Universe Wikia:Canon policy? The book was authored for a film that specifically was created to document the film that was actually created by Toriyama, a film that had the most involvement from Toriyama. Again, who is denying your statements that the series is not canon, no one. Its completely inconsequential to the conversation on whether we should change the page's name based on nicknaming from Toyotaro's manga (not canon, in my opinion) and the anime that used the nickname found from the manga that is considered a side-story. I'm not saying we should deny its existence but since Toriyama had more involvement in the film and named that way we'll have to use that name over other nicknames. That does not mean we cannot have it as a side name or secondary name. —[[User:New World God|''NWG]] 20:20, April 3, 2016 (UTC) @NWG I respect you man but the canon policy says continuations are above databooks. So @Lastation you're wrong, change it. -- 23:09, April 3, 2016 (UTC) : This databook was written by Toriyama as opposed to Toei, which compiled the other databooks. There will be no change of information here. Period. That is the end of this discussion. 'Ten Tailed Fox' (Talk) 00:12, April 4, 2016 (UTC) Well,the transformation was called Super Saiayn Blue in the new Toriyama interview. Just gonna drop it here http://vjump.shueisha.co.jp/comic/dbs01_sp_int/ Faisal Shourov (talk) 14:07, April 4, 2016 (UTC) Yeah, just going to point out the obvious that Toriyama doesn't call it SSB, the interviewer does, its obviously written that even the most basic auto-translation (from chrome)-would've easily been able to make this apparent. I almost think what you did is google-ninja to make your point without reading your own link. Also note that its (SSB) a secondary name and it's not being excluded, we're just calling it based on what the mangaka's actual work is and not using the name thats is secondary, it still wasn't named (by Toriyama) as you're inferring, I'll toss this to my translator so he can determine if what you're saying is correct. —[[User:New World God|NWG 7K]] 15:53, April 4, 2016 (UTC) : If Toriyama himself hasn't said it, ''we are not renaming the page. That is all there is to this discussion; any further discussion about this topic without the backing of evidence from Toriyama himself will be ignored. You're beating a dead horse at this point, Faisal; even in this interview, like NWG said, only the interviewer used "Super Saiyan Blue", not Toriyama. This discussion is settled, there's nothing more to be said.—Mina Țepeș 16:09, April 4, 2016 (UTC) Name change? I thought the name was not going to be changed? What happened ? o,O Faisal Shourov (talk) 08:39, April 18, 2016 (UTC) : The latest episode. It is clear that all of the characters are using the name "Super Saiyan Blue" now—not just the Saiyans, but everyone watching them as well. Vegeta even introduces it as "Super Saiyan Blue" to Cabba earlier. Thinking about it, I wouldn't introduce something by its nickname to someone new to the concept. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is still its official name: it's called that in all the databooks, all of the prior media, and even in Xenoverse, where it was first introduced to the video game media. That being said, we can't deny that Super Saiyan Blue is now the preferred term in both the anime and the manga. Ten Tailed Fox (Talk) 18:34, April 18, 2016 (UTC) : Pardon for being blunt, but I feel offended that my opinion was thoroughly discarded for bringing up the same point earlier. I know you're a bureucrat so your opinion holds more weight than mine. Really disappointed, I am. Faisal Shourov (talk) 18:45, April 18, 2016 (UTC) :: Well, while I do apologize for offending you, and also to be blunt in response, I don't apologize for how I went about it. It isn't that I'm b-crat. It's that I'm a founder, and my messages were being blown up with complaints about the arguments on this page. As I had access to the Japanese databook, and hadn't been caught up with Super at the time, I took the official translation (which is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan) and made that final. I'm sorry if that sounds terrible, and perhaps it is, but it was my way of putting water on a fire before it spread. Ten Tailed Fox (Talk) 19:40, April 18, 2016 (UTC) :: Well at least you apologized so it's all good, and the name change is complete which was my original intention. Still, feels weird that it was changed according to the reasons I argued for. even though all the argument from my part was futile. Faisal Shourov (talk) 19:51, April 18, 2016 (UTC) Picture/Slideshow I think we should have a slideshow comparing the muscle mass of Goku and Vegeta in their normal vs their SSB form.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 05:56, May 8, 2016 (UTC) Legendary Super Saiyan I see in the "other" section you guys have Legendary Super Saiyan for another name. Actually, when Vegeta said that, he was referring to Super Saiyan, not SSGSS. He was saying that Freeza didn't know he could transform into the legendary Super Saiyan form Meshack (talk) 04:32, May 23, 2016 (UTC) : 'cept he didn't turn Super Saiyan when he said it, he turned Super Saiyan Blue. Doesn't matter if you interpret it to mean the regular Super Saiyan form, since he clearly transformed into Super Saiyan Blue, Freeza was surprised, and then Vegeta gloated about the form he was in. Ten Tailed Fox (Talk) 05:05, May 23, 2016 (UTC)